Regarding Tuchux

topic posted Tue, June 14, 2005 - 6:37 AM by  wildcat
Some of you have sent me emails asking me to tell you about Tuchux. So I figured, why not just start a new thread and see where it goes? Food for thought - I can't reveal all of our secrets. Well I could, but I'd have to kill you.

Tuchux were created 32 years ago by Wulf the Mighty, a sense and swordsmith in Pittsburgh, who was at an SCA fighter practice and decided it wasn't his thing. He wanted more of a realistic martial arts type group - dedicated to fighting and being yourself. Philosophical differences regarding fighting rules, styles and personas led him to create a new group - the name of which he got out of Nomads of Gor, book four of that horrid Gor series. (Once again, nothing more than a few names and words came out of the book. The people who do actually live the lifestyle from the book are called Goreans - they're a whole other story, and we get confused with them all the time. Generally, we don't agree with the Gorean way of life. Many Goreans find it upsetting that we don't follow their lifestyle. It's ok. They're allowed to.)

In the Tuchux, there are ten clans, each of which has it's own clan leader, shaman, banner, and personality. Most clans are based in Pittsburgh, although the Kur (my clan) is from Youngstown, Ohio and there are also clans in Indiana and the Maryland/DC area.

The Tuchux are based on fighting and philosophy. Our fighting style is more realistic, with no rules of any kind. We fight as if in a real fight every time. There's none of this "You can't swing your sword outside of a 90 degree arc" or "no secondary weapons". In a real battle, you wouldn't tap your adversary on the shoulder to make sure he saw you and say "Spar, M'lord?" You would smash him into a bloody pulp until he spit his ilver out through his nose, and he would never see it coming. That's how we practice. But alas, if we are at an SCA event, we do follow their fighting rules (well, we try to anyways).

Philosophically, You are either Tuchux or you aren't. We're not everyone's cup of tea, and we're comfortable with that. We are a warrior society, with the sword as the solution to most problems. If we have an issue with someone, we fight it out, shake hands, grab a beer and compliment each other on the bruises we left. We strive for honesty in dealing with each other, sometimes brutal. We don't play games with each other, and we don't try to be something we're not. We are who we are, and if people don't like it, they don't have to come up to camp. We enjoy our solitude and being left alone anyway.

As inspiration, We don't limit ourselves to any one time and place. My clan leader Dagar sees the Tuchux as the embodiment of the Warrior spirit throughout time. And contrary to popular belief, there are tons of history buffs in the tribe. Many of us are influenced by Native American, Mongol, Japanese, or Norse culture. Some of us just like to wear funny clothes and howl at the moon. It's all good.

The wenches - We see the term wench as a high compliment. We are praised and respected by our dogs at all times. Every wench is escorted by at least one dog, especially at night. With the rising incidence of rape and assault at War, our dogs take care of us to make sure that never happens to us. And in 32 years, not one wench has ever been assaulted at War, or anywhere else for that matter. I have no problem with the women who walk out alone at night. I just choose to bring an escort. I'm not about to trust 15,000 people to leave me alone.

The people - We have people from all walks of life in the tribe. From bikers and janitors to lawyers and doctors. We even have a Tuchux in Silicon Valley. No matter what you do in the real wors, you are a Tuchux at all times.

The Rumors - All of them are true. Every last one. In fact, last year someone worte me and asked me if we really do take newbies and duct tape them to trees to leave their genitals out to burn in the sun. I really thought we hid that guy better.
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  • Thanks, Wildcat. I appreciate your sharing some information, it's actually very helpful.

    In my personal experience, Tuchux are people I have only seen at war. Whenever I inquired about them, usually I get the "oh *them*, they just play their own game" response and nothing else. Frankly, that always made me mad, but noone ever seemed to really know anything to say, so instead just affect a superior attitude and leave it at that.

    I must offer congratulations, though on managing to be the most public "secret society" I have seen :)
    • Thanks for the info Wildcat! Last summer it was my first Pennsic and I was told never to go to the Tuchux camp without an escort and I couldn't find anyone from my camp to go with me. Is this true?

      I really wanted to come dance with you guys after reading how awesome your drumming circles are on the message board. But I could never get anyone from my camp to go with me. Ah well, hopefully I can get there at the next Pennsic I go to.
      • Unsu...
        That's the same thing I ran into this year! I have this intense curiosity about the Tuchux camp and I keep hearing rumors. I was invited in twice but my escort wouldn't let me go. It was finally decided that if I want to go into the camp next year, I'll have bring my handcuffs and attach myself to my escort. No-one apparently has faith in me or the Tuchux except us.
  • My camp last year insisted on escorts as well, and i would constantly sneak out because i hate haivng an escort. i was warned though, under no circumstances was i to go near tuchux hill without an escort becasue they were wild and had a high incident of assualt.
    Obiviously you'd jsut pointed out that's untrue, but now that i see this, it's sort of amusing.
    • That's funny about the warning not to go anywhere near Tuchux camp. I got the same warnings, but I had something I wanted to drop off to Wildcat, so despite the horror stories (and also because I'd read alot of her posts and understood their rules), I went anyway. And I have to say that the dog guarding camp when I stopped by was by far the most gracious gentleman I met during war. He greeted me with a smile and called for her, even though I said I really didn't want to bother her, only leave something with a note.

      Then again, I wasn't there with a hidden agenda, trying to get in or acting like an ass, so I guess you get what you give.

      Sorry Wildcat - don't mean to soften the image or anything!
      • Wilflrda - Thanks again for the present. The box is lovely, the dead things are great, and the rum was delicious.

        Please don't use the gentleman word again. We do have an image to uphold. Nex time tell people he was frothing at the mouth to be realeased form his pen.

        Another woman stopped by to say hi at War Practice. She had a friend drive her up who parked on the opposite side of the road and refused to get out of the car. She wouldn't look at us either. It was like "Do not stare directly at the Tuchux". I laughed a lot.
        • There's a great story running about our Barony about the Tuchux, during the reign of King Valdric (sp?) the army of the Tuchux were marching by his encampment to the battlefield while he was addressing his troops...(by this time His Majesty’s voice was almost gone and he was speaking in a croaking whisper) as they marched passed the Tuchux were chanting loudly, to the point where his Magisty could not be heard, the Lady Queen in her best and loudest Grade School teacher voice shouted above the chanting...
          "Great warriors of the Tuchux tribes, My Lord His Majesty is trying to address his troops and cannot be heard above your chanting... Could you please quiet down?!?"
          At which point the Tuchux stopped looked into the encampment and continued on their way still chanting only now in just a bare whisper till they passes the camp, at which point they resumed their original volume.

          I never understood the problems some SCAdians have with the Tuchux, I've always found them to be fun, honorable and all around fine people (so long as you offer them the same respect as you would wish for yourself.)
          • "I never understood the problems some SCAdians have with the Tuchux, I've always found them to be fun, honorable and all around fine people (so long as you offer them the same respect as you would wish for yourself.) "

            Amen to that brother.
        • lol. that's a funny image actually.

          like if you don't look at the eyes of a SilverBack.....

          I like this thread. Thanks for starting it. Great deal of knowledge to be had.

        • I knew you'd cringe at the use of the "g" word! If it helps any, he was rather scary looking in a really bad-ass-but-still-attractive-pierced/studded/tatooed way. No one in their right mind would have wanted to piss him off.

          (is that at least a little better???)

          Only wish I'd been able to make it up for open camp night. Sounds like it was a fantastic party. But my entire camp packed up and left on Saturday, and for the sake of safety, I didn't want to be the lone female left on our land block. Damnit - I hope they don't do that again this year, but I bet they will...

          • Unsu...
            "If it helps any, he was rather scary looking in a really bad-ass-but-still-attractive-pierced/studded/tatooed way. No one in their right mind would have wanted to piss him off."

            Here here! Normally I am just interested in members of my own gender, but there is nothing quite so tempting as one of the Tuchux men. WOOF! I'd contimplate bi for that!
            • i have great respect for the tuchux clans, and what would the hills be like without the tuchux?

              i do hope they continue to flurish... they are close to the root of existance...
              • Unsu...
                I hope so too! I don't know a whole lot about the culture but just about anyone operating outside of what it considered "acceptable" is someone I'd be proud to call "friend".

                D'ner, Did you happen to be at Pennsic this year? I seem to have a memort of someone looking very much like you struting thorugh one of the merchant villages very in control of himself and his situation.
                • If you saw someone like D'ner, it most likely was D'ner. Mind you, I would've described his walk as "flowing" or "easing his way through the crowds with a deer's grace" rather than "strutting", but then I only saw him like 4 times.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    well strutting was not the physical vibe I was going for, more the energy. In charge. Not "look at me" but in that you couldn't help but look at him. Flowing or easing describes the physical sense a lot better though.
                    • gosh... i'm blushing... thank you...

                      i'm just me, and in truth i see great grace and beauty all thru the pennsic...

                      there is a nice primal back-beat in the ground, and you can see people come alive as they walk thru the paths and the merchant isles and thru the woods of the pennsic : )
                      • Unsu...
                        Your welcome.

                        I agree though, there is just something about Pennsic that renews me. You can't help but get lost in the atmosphere and...yeah..."come alive" as you put it.
  • Early on in war last year, I was a guest at the Tuchux Camp. In casual conversation with Minimal I remarked that the previous evening I had been in attendance at a party in the Swamp where I "ran into" a somewhat obnoxious dog. It wasn't a complaint but just a casual comment. Before the end of the evening, this particular dog approached me and apologized for his behavior of the previous evening.

    On the last Saturday night, I attended the Tuchux Open Camp party and it was the best time I had at war!! The entertainment was awesome...Wolgemut, Fire Spinners, Jugglers, Fire Eaters...just amazing. Great drums and dancing. I had gone up there by myself and while in general a guest of Minimal, I found one of the other dogs "standing by" as the evening wore on and I imbided more of Minimal's beverages. Thank goodness for him as he made sure I got back to my camp without incident.

    I too had heard negative stories of the Tuchux my first Pennsic, but had the honor of being introduced to them by Sir Gunther, brother in law to Kobar. To all who read this thread...I would not insult nor disrespect a dog or a wench for to do so is not in your best interests. However, I do trust their honor and justice without question, and am humbled and honored to count a few of them amongst my acquaintances and friends.
    • My first full pennsic was 21, I was roped into being staff and got to meet Wulf and some of the Tuchux with Master Cahan Kyle, I always found them to be fun loving honorable party animals. And with a few minor incidents that were settled I have always been treated well by the Dogs, and not as well as I would have liked by the wenchs... (i really put my foot in it one year dont go there...) But thats

      • Unsu...
        Tuchux...women...i was told not to look directly at the Tuchux women, which i have no problem with, that's just the way i'd heard it. This will be my 2nd pennsic and i've been told they have given respect when it is due "you Wolves (Argent Lupe) kill Mids good" and have otherwise let us be. what more can you ask?
        • Chiv - you are absolutely right. Do not stare directly at the wenches. Staring too long may potentially cause the starer to get hit with a really big stick. Not to mention the genital mutilation rays that shoot out of our eyes. (Somebody actually asked me about that once.)
          • I have two questions

            The Tuchux tribes, how are they formed? Where all ten tribes formed at the inception or can you create a new tribe if you get enough Tuchux to want to form a new tribe.

            In the SCA, during an event, it is assumed to take place at some time in the "past" ie not modern times. Do the Tuchux do something similar, or do your event take place in "modern" times.
            • Kjyl - There weren't always ten clans. Originally there were five. The Kur was the first new clan, incepted about a year after the Tuchux began - created by Sparrowhawk, Rogar (Dagar's father), Khalizek Stormchild, Hroth, my father, and a few old dogs who are no longer with us. The other four clans came later. So to answer your question, yes new clans can be formed, but it is a decision brought up by the dog wanting to start a new clan, and left up to the Ubar (leader) and current clan leaders to decide.

              And as far as time goes, since we don't adhere to one timeframe, our events don't either. We don't think of things that way. The fighters may fight in various period styles, but it's just a basis so they can create their own style, not the whole purpose. At events, our goal is to keep Mundania to a minimum - we are there to get away from it - but you won't hear us bitching if someone isn't wearing garb while hanging around their own camp. Just like you, we like to maintain a certain atmosphere - not necessarily a period atmosphere, as our style comes from all periods, but a Tuchux atmosphere, which we continue to create as we go.
          • Over the years I too have heard many rumors and negative comments about the Tuchux, but I have always ignored them as they have often come from total blow hards who I wouldn't trust to give me a weather report. Thanks for the info Wildcat, you crack me up!
          • Hallo All,
            Under advice of a certain wench I figured I would check out the tribe and send my greetings. I do hope all is going well for everyone in preparations for War. Okay so I was trying to be nice first.

            One of the rumors that I heard was that you shouldnt feed Wildcat's Dog tequilla, although burbon is good as a gift. If you ask me, in my experience with Dogs, a happy Dog makes for a happy Wench. Yeah, I plan to pack a spare bottle of the favored stuff so both are doing the snickers dance.

            Having a giggle,
            "The crazy red-headed bitch."
  • Unsu...
    last year, they were rarely mentioned to me...usually the most that got mentioned would be a party or somethin of the like, but not much of the people themselves...but the small mentionings of the people, i got basically either you like them, or you dont, and vice versa for that matter.....but its good to know more now at least

    on the whole escort thing, i did have one once, but she was pretty much just like a guide, just showing me where things/certain camps were and stuff..other than that, i just wandered around on my own, mostly the 'bog' or night, pitch black or not, didnt bother me any........although with there being talks of thefts and attacks sometimes and stuff, this year i am carrying a dagger or 2 as my escorts :D
    • This will be my 10th Pennsic camping on the Dell just 100 yards from the Tuchux. All of my encounters with them have been perfectly cordial and, at least once, very amusing.

      I think it was my 4th Pennsic and my tent was right on the road (only enought space for my tent lines and that was it). It was late at night and I had just blown out the candles under my sun shade. I was taking my boots off before going in my tent when two Tuchux men walked past. One said to the other "All I wanted this evening was Pina Colada and a BJ, was that too much to ask?" I started to laugh, they both stopped walking and started apologizing for my overhearing their conversation. It was so cute.

      And then, of course, who wouldn't want to watch men in tight leather pants strutting past?
      • Men in tight leather pants strutting...can I get an OOWAH?! There's just something about a man in dead things that makes my heart flutter.

        By the way, that's my clan's camp that you were right across the road from. I can see your camp from my house! We don't get too many repeat neighbors on that site (N25). One reason is that it's pretty much uncampable, except for right along the road or on top of that big damn hill. I have a little story about the other reason.

        A few years ago, we were power lounging in camp on the first week, watching Pennsic build up around us. A man pulled up next door to us and began unpacking. He put up his pavillion on top of that damn hill (all by himself - It took him hours) . He put up a supply pavillion (another few hours). he set up his domicile, got everything in it's place, and finally, after an eight our setup, sat down to read a book. I watched as a golf cart pulled up to him. A very authoritative looking guy got off and beelined for the newly settled camper. They conversed for a few minutes, the authoritarian dude throwing all kinds of authoritarian explanatory gestures to the camper, and pointing at our camp several times. The ony thing I acutally heard come out of the camper's mouth was "That's TUCHUX camp?" To which the authoritarian nodded quite sympathetically. The authoritarian patted the guy on the back, walked heavy hearted back to his golf cart, and drove off. The camper whipped into his tent, packed up his entire camp, and drove away, never to be seen by us again.

        There used to be a time when we actually had to do something to get people to leave us alone. Now SCA officials do it for us. The times they are a-changin'.
        • I do agree, men in dead thing do set the heart to pounding. Kilts also do that for me but I think that just might be an easy access thing.

          All the years I was single I wished one would sweep me away but no such luck, I found one who lived in the Swamp. I figured it wasn't such a stretch to hope, I ama busty red head afterall and those seem very sought after at Pennsic.

          Most of the people I camp with are a bunch of sticks in the mud and you all always sound like you are having so much fun!
      • 'And then, of course, who wouldn't want to watch men in tight leather pants strutting past? '

        Errm, me. I'd rather they didn't strut past, but set a spell, instead. Maybe I could make them a piña colada. Or something.

        (was that a trick question?...)
  • I've not had opportunity to meet many Tuchux at war, save for Hykon (who had taken an interest in one of my girlfriends). But about 5 years ago, one of my campmates and I were both very sick and it was raining and we opted to bail early. We got up to our cars and her Mustang was so stuck in the parking lot that I thought we'd NEVER get to leave.

    I was sick and aggitated and the closest people with muscle that might be able to push the car out was the Tuchux. So I went to the gate (it was prolly before 9am) and asked the guard to get Hykon. The Gurad kinda gave me a hard time and I told him I would walk in am find him myself. I think the guy at the gate realized I was in distress and not just screwing off at that point. Asked me what was wrong, I told him and he went in, got the requested Hykon AND several others (all nursing hangovers from the look of it) and they very pleasantly got my friends car out.

    I didnt beleive much of the BS about the Tuchux that I had heard years before, but that moment made me realize that its a pretty good lot to know :-)

    And thanks again too all those who helped :-)
    • Unsu...
      Hykon is indeed one of the finest warriors ever to walk the Earth. Check out my photo album for a shot of him on a war horse. It was 95 and sunny when we did that shoot....bugs biting and sweat in the eyes, but neither subject complained. 'Twas grand indeed...
      Basina~that is one of the few times I've seen someone spell his name correctly. I've also had the extreeeeeme pleasure of being pushed out of the mud by yummy Tuchux dogs. They ended up COVERED in thick Pennsic clay mud. I really felt bad. I was so greatful I gave them everything I had in my pockets.
      I mean --WAIT!! They threw me down and took everything!!! Then they pushed my truck over a cliff!!! And pointed and laughed!!! And they smelled bad, too. Yeah.
      • Mmmm...Hykon. Oui. He can smell as bad as he wants to. I still get to touch his butt all the time (heeheehee).

        Malicious! It's about time you got here.
        • Unsu...
          I always love hearing the rumors. We eat babies and break lawn chairs.
          Fact is, some people get us, some people dont. No big deal. It's always cool to have enemies.
          • G
            offline 53
            The worst tuchux of the bunch has to be that Animal guy. Eight feet tall, cloven hoofed, bright red skin and a tail. Fights with a pitchfork too, I hear. I even heard that when he farts, tornados appear over the midwest and hurricannes come ashore in Florida.

            • Unsu...
              The worst tuchux of the bunch has to be that Animal guy. Eight feet tall, cloven hoofed, bright red skin and a tail. Fights with a pitchfork too, I hear. I even heard that when he farts, tornados appear over the midwest and hurricannes come ashore in Florida.

              No way. Ratty just spread that rumor because of me... shall we say... fondness... for brussels sprouts.
  • "The worst tuchux of the bunch has to be that Animal guy. Eight feet tall, cloven hoofed, bright red skin and a tail. Fights with a pitchfork too, I hear."

    Yeah, I hear that Animal guy even eats baby kitties and likes to twist nipples on the battlefield as a method of distraction. Only thing is I heard he was 9 feet tall with green skin, yellow eyes and horns. His breath alone is said to take down the first three rows of enemy fighters in the Bridge Battles. Sounds like a guy I went to school with.
    • Unsu...
      Kittens are atkins approved and why do you think men HAVE nipples anyway?? Sorry about the breath thing though. Sauerkraut and jalapenos are a traditional breakfast food in our camp.

  • Wildcat!! It's so nice to find you again! I can't wait baby! Less than a month, you and I will be shakin' next to a fire. :)

    The wenches: Incredible women -- hot, strong, sexy, tough, and did I mention hot?

    The rumors: True, I have been there for a few story moments -- note to wildcat, should invest in more tarps, hides them better.
  • Hi Wildcat!

    Yep, all those rumors are true. Except for the ones about the golf carts... and about us pouring way to much booze into Dusty at the Black Rose...
    • I had nothing to do with that golf cart ending up in the ditch! Dusty was driving!

      Just goes to show - never play chicken in a golf cart with the water truck.
      • Wildcat, don't you mean to say "Unfortunately the wind picked up and blew dust in Dusty's eyes and made him sneeze, causing you to veer ferociously toward the side of the road in desperation to reach a safe spot avoiding the oncoming water truck whereby you had the dismay of beaching the vehicle into the ditch".... yeah, yeah, that's more of what really happened.
        • If it had happened at all.... which it didn't... nasty rumor...
          • sorry it took so long to repply, I owe a debt to the camp, although I suspect it may have changed, and wanted to bring a payment by, and party a bit as well. it has been 6 years since i made pennsic, but from the posts I see some of you have enjoyed my camp. Black Rose. Black Rose broke up this year, but Gaberials Landing Bar will still be on E-17 on Tuchux hill. I will be spending some time there as well.

            Last time I came into Tuchux camp I had to bring a woman in chains in to get in. I was hoping this year someone would tell me what they like to drink and have an invite so I can return the debt of 6 years.

            • Unsu...
              LOL Everytime I see someone posting about how they're camping in our old campsite I cant help but chuckle thinking about how somone is camping in my old pee spot :)
  • My first year at war I ran into (not literally) a dog who was being a bit of a jerk. That on top of the rumors that naturally go around during your first year painted a very negative image in my head. Now, since hanging around the Black Rose and Gabriel's Landing, I've met a few awesome Tuchux. I'm damn glad I did. Dusty, Wildcat and whoever they brought with them each night. I think it changed a few times .... I hope I get the chance to hang and dance with you more this year. I know I'm missing out on some of the superb sh*t you do!

    And yes, men in dead things are sexy...
    • Is it true that during quest events, Tuchux sometimes dress up as monsters?
      • Unsu...
        I remember the year that Wulf was a troll. He had taped a piece of rattan up with brown ruct tape and taped some roots and such to the one end. Then he stuck it into the ground. So when you couldnt answer the question he would pull what looked like a small tree up out of the ground by the roots and beat you with it. Cool as hell!
        Then the one year Stormbear had this cool bear costume. He'd come up out of the woods, looked cool as hell. Until Kodi broke his hand with an axe.
        One quest we had some of the wenches dressed like withces stirring a cauldron. Very cool ambiance that time.
        We like to have fun.
        • Yeah, I have heard that, some of the scenarios you guys do sound pretty cool. It would be neat if the SCA did some more stuff like that.
          • I remember as a kid being a wood nymph or something in the quest. I hid in the shadows with Hawk's daughter and we pulled tripwires for one obstacle. And I was a witch for years. We had a glowing cauldron filled with funky stuff, and people had to drink it. They picked either the truth potion or love potion. If they picked truth poeion, they had to answer the truth to any question we asked. If they picked love potion, they had to kiss one of the females around the fire (one of which was a wench's Boxer named Sheeba. She was drooly.)

            Last year for Kick or Treat we had boat battles, with two boats set up and a rope hanging from a tree so you could swashbuckle between the two of them. There are pics of Tamoc in action swinging from one boat, getting throttled by Bowen in mid swing, and uncerimoniously flopping head first onto the other boat. Hee hee hee...
          • Unsu...
            The SCA cant do stuff like that. It would turn into some beanbag throwing LARP. We have a great time doing the occasional quest with fantastic elements but the basis is still the fighting. Always the fighting. Flavor added doesnt take away from that at all with us. It still comes down to what you can do with your sword.
            • (heavy sigh) "We have a great time doing the occasional quest with fantastic elements but the basis is still the fighting. Always the fighting. Flavor added doesnt take away from that at all with us. It still comes down to what you can do with your sword. "

              From my point of view it ISN'T always the fighting in the SCA. It shouldn't be all just about the fighting either. OH you meant the fighters and not the tin hats politically jousting with their "swords"? Still it isn't about that exclusively either.

              As far Tuchux are concerned I'm not sure I understand completely yet? I hope my experiences with them however don't change my opinion of folks I've met on P-net and now tribes?

              "The SCA cant do stuff like that. It would turn into some beanbag throwing LARP."
              I feel removed from my LARP playing friends in the SCA. I would like to keep it that way too! Please?
              • Unsu...
                (heavy sigh) "We have a great time doing the occasional quest with fantastic elements but the basis is still the fighting. Always the fighting. Flavor added doesnt take away from that at all with us. It still comes down to what you can do with your sword. "

                From my point of view it ISN'T always the fighting in the SCA. It shouldn't be all just about the fighting either. OH you meant the fighters and not the tin hats politically jousting with their "swords"? Still it isn't about that exclusively either. "

                That's why you're you and we're us. Y'all have all the political bullcrap and you're welcome to it. Our respect is based on performance. You cant buy that. We're diverse, but the bottom line is you cant get the respect without the sword. Everything else comes after you've established yourself.

                "As far Tuchux are concerned I'm not sure I understand completely yet? I hope my experiences with them however don't change my opinion of folks I've met on P-net and now tribes? "

                Your opinion of people should be based on your personal experiences with individuals. Honestly I wont lose sleep if you dont understand us or think we're jerks. Join the crowd.

                "The SCA cant do stuff like that. It would turn into some beanbag throwing LARP."
                I feel removed from my LARP playing friends in the SCA. I would like to keep it that way too! Please? "

                Then keep it that way. Do your thing and have your fun. Why is this hard?
                • I remember when the SCA used to have quests at events. I guess too many members caught 'greyface' disease so they stopped having them.

                  I'll never understand why someone would choose seriousness over fun.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Some things are serious. Other things arent. It's good to know when to be serious and when not to be.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Hel, I was going to say the same thing. Back before everyone had "stickuptheassitis", we actually used to do quests. They were hands down, the best events, ever.

                    Now everyone's so busy taking themselves way too seriously to remember what used to make events exciting and different.
                • G
                  offline 53
                  I fail to see the problem in understanding. The Tuchux do things their way and the SCA does things their own way. The Tuchux are not SCA and the SCA is not a Tuchux tribe. Would you expect the Civil War society to conform to the way the SCA does things? No. Why? Because they don't have the same focus. I think the problem is that many SCA people see tuchux and decide that there is enough similarity that the tuchux ARE SCA but not doing it right. Just because the tuchux happen to be at Pennsic, does not mean they are SCA. Just like the Adrian empire or any of the LARP groups are not SCA. Pennsic just happens to be a cross-roads where different groups meet and have some amount of overlap of focus. With the Tuchux and the SCA, there is some common interest in history on the part of some of it's members and a hearty desire to hit people with sticks. Other than than, the groups walk different paths. Just look at the way the two groups decide who gets to join and that should give you a clue.

                  I am genuinely looking forward to Pennsic and meeting Animal in person. I hope that when I visit him in his camp he will clue me in on any etiquette issues so I do not accidently break custom. I do not assume that I will be just walking into another SCA camp and act accordingly. I will be visiting a friend in his camp and must observe the traditions and culture of that group. To otherwise is to disrespect my friend and his tribe. I know that he would do the same and try to observe the tradition and culture of the Ravensfuri's were he to come to An Tir and camp with us.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Yup. Acting with respect towards your friends brings honor to all concerned. Some people get that, others dont.
                    • It is not really the fantastical stuff that interests me, more the scenarios, like that boat thing, or an night attack thing. I would like the SCA to do more of that.
                      • Unsu...
                        When I mean fantasitcal stuff I mean like along the lines of the norse sagas. When we have quests theres more to it than just the fighting. Gotta use your brains too. As far as the scenarios go, the SCA just isnt set up that way. Too many people just afraid of the consequenses I guess. I mean, I've never been to an SCA event where the enemy fort got burned down with the defenders still inside of it. Pity that. It was a blast.

                        Ok, so we didnt burn it exactly down... but it smoldered real well :)
                        • So do the Tuchux have a different set of armour standards and rules for fighting?
                          • Unsu...
                            Yup. Wear what you want and fight however you like. Just remember that yo're fighting your family and not the enemy and it's all good.
                            Any weapon you wanna use, any way you wanna use it. If all you wanna wear is a helmet then that's all you gotta wear.
                            We're big into personal responsibility.
                            • So I've been training to fight some way or another since I was a child, but am relatively new to the heavy weapons combat stuff (I've been training 6 months or so). I've been training with the SCA because that's what's available, and I like fighting with them, but from what's been posted here I think I might like Tuchux fighting more. I'm in the DC metropolitan area, are there regular Tuchux fight practices around here? How would I go about attending one?
                              • Wow. This thread is two years old, so I have to go back and see what the hell I wrote.

                                There are Tuchux in the Maryland/DC area, but you'll have to track them down yourself. I don't know when or where they practice. We are a bit more picky about who we let in as opposed to the SCA. We aren't everyone's cup of tea, and we like it that way. You're either a Tuchux or you're not. It's in the blood.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    "I am genuinely looking forward to Pennsic and meeting Animal in person. I hope that when I visit him in his camp he will clue me in on any etiquette issues so I do not accidently break custom."

                    Hey What about me?? The rat behind the man....(well unless he's had apricots and salsa...then NO ONE better stand behind him!)


                    Is it Pennsic yet?
                    • G
                      offline 53
                      Hey Rattie,
                      I am looking forward to meeting you, Wildcat, Minimal and a bunch of other Tuchuxs. Hell, I'm looking forward to meeting a lot of people I have talked to over hte last year (Yes, even you Azhrde 8-) ). It's just that i tend to talk with Animal the most, so I tend to want to meet him first. I am not sure if Pennsic can cope though.
  • Oh my....

    I had heard only the vaguest things about the Tuchux.
    Just enough to wonder, but not enough to know anything
    Wednesday, the field battle was my first day watching the battles
    andI was towards the Eastern Kingdom Side,closest to theroad

    And the Tuchux......
    OMG it was amazing. Beautiful, Adrenaline Pumping, Organized Destruction...
    I just had to be careful, one ofthose so close on the sideline I had to be
    careful I didn't get involved.
    Absolutely amazing.

    I was hoping I'd get the chance to meet a few..
    and I heard rumor they had attended Three Skulls Parties in the past
    bearing drums with excellent drummers.

    I don't quite know if anyone came this year...there was a question
    if a formal invite had been mentioned. If anyone did,I'm sorta sorry
    I didn't get to meet you off the battlefield.

    Maybe next year..
  • I think at times it's not the Tuchux that causes the's either those who for some reason dislike the thought of the Tuchux or it's those who dress like Tuchux to get away with stuff.

    Those I've met are kind and polite. A friend once told me she was walking back to her encampment at about 2 a.m. when two Tuchux walked close by. They stated to her that no lady should be walking unescorted and agreed to walk her back to camp. EVen after she told them what camp, and her knowing how unfortunately her camp had a 'history' with the Tuchux. They walked her back to camp anyways... When she was at the gate, she turned to thank them, and they had disappeared although she knew they had been there not 3 steps away.

    It's all about acceptance, graciousness, and being open minded.
  • I always liked Tuchux. I never was unusually afraid of them, but respected them. I always respect people who know who they are and how they want to live, and then do so.

    The Tuchux are part of Pennsic that is deep-seated, ingrained, part of the event's heritage. I am glad to see the continuity of the Tuchux every year at War. They are part of what makes Pennsic seem like "home."

    Thanks for sharing, Wildcat.
    • I have only been to two Pennsics, but my favor battles have been when we have went up against the Tuchux.
      I am from Windsor, Ontario and our local group lines up with Darkyard on the field, so I have got to go up against the Tuchux a few times.
      Its always been a blast. And I have found them to be the most honorable opponents I have fought at Pennsic.
      Next year I will have to make it a point to introduce my self to a few of you guys.
      You sound like a hell of a bunch.
  • I have always enjoyed the Tuchux. I joined the SCA in 1988. In those days, i had heard stories of Tuchux. It was a pleasure meeting them at my first Pennsic back in 1990. Only a few of those Tuchux are still around. There was Zantor, Tempest, Sitan, Sitor and a few others.
    My first battle experience with Tuchux was rather unique. They were damned little armor. In the early years, they did not fight with shields.
    They fought hard and were damned honorable on the field, they were unlike any people I had fought while enjoying the war. Now, you see shields. Tor has that well known round shield made from what looks to be a Trash can lid.
    The Tuchux invoke images of a Fantasy band of warriors. I think of mad Max like people living to fight the next battle. They are like Tarzan meets Conan and the revel in it. No matter what, you have to admire that.
    Sadly, there are the Tuchux want to be type. You find these all over Pennsic. No doubt the Tuchux have caught Hell for misbehavior of these fake Tuchux. I know how to tell the difference. Tuchux always have their brand proudly marked on them. They always have weapns of some sort. The fakes don't.
    Too bad you guys never make it to Gulf Wars. We are having a event here in Atlantia called War of the Wings. We can be found at please come and check us out.
  • I seem to recall someone once telling me that the Tuchux were based upon the French in some fashion.

    In what way does my improbable recollection differ from the facts as I know them?

    And, I recall going to a Tuchux event and being molested horribly (with the touching and the squeezing). How do you explain what happened to poor little Argh? Hm? Scarred for life... me, not him.

    And they kept hitting me with sticks!!!
  • Since there was no Tuchux Tournament this year at Pennsic, we were wondering where to send donations to?
    • I believe Darter is willing to accept donations for us. Check with him. Otherwise, send them directly to the Susan B. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation.
      • Kind of off topic but I wanted to say thanks for stopping by the Burning Hand Camp. It was a pleasure to meet you and I enjoy your posts. It was nice to put an in person face to the name.
        • I had a blast with you guys too. Thanks for the hospitality. And what was that red stuff you gave me? It was great. It's always nice to find new places filled with old friends. I look forward to hanging out more in the future.

          And I will never divulge the blueprints for the genital mutilation ray. MUAHAHA!!!
          • You would have to ask Ystll, I think he mixed it. It was probably "Blood of dead Thief" going along with the whole -why we can't have a burning hand on a favor- issue.

            Silly SCA Rules. LOL
  • Some of the tales of the Tuchux that have been passed on to me:

    Several pennsics ago when a tornado touched down at war it was the Tuchux who set up a soup kitchen to feed the people trying to pull their camps back together.

    Never drive a golf cart thru the tuchux camp, story says a young man who was new to pennsic but had done a few PS shifts drove into their camp and was promptly surrounded by dogs. They took the keys and then Minimal moved him over and drove the cart around for the remainder of the shift. Upon returning at the end of shift Minimal thru the keys to the Deputy on duty and said 'i brought your boy back'

    Few pennsics ago when a young lady was attacked the Tuchux went to ground and tracked down the attacker and spent a few days teaching him 'respect for ladies'. When the attacker was turned over to the mundane authorities it was claimed the young man 'fell down the stairs'

    I've also heard that an incident between Tuchux and Vlad's is why they are out by the parking lot now. Though i tend not to retell that one as it doesn't lend to the mystique as much as the other stories.
    • While there are several golf cart stories - most involving pulling them out of the lake or a dtich - I think I know the one you may be referring to. And it wasn't exactly like that. The guy was a total newbie - first day at War. Security sent him to check something out at Tuchux camp. He drove right through the center of our camp, where Minimal met him. Minimal then drove the cart back to Gregory to tell him what a great job the kid had done, and kept it most of the night. The kid spent the rest of his shift walking back to security.

      It was the Vlad thing that put us where we are now. I don't tell the story publicly either. I like to hear everyone else's version too much. (Contrary to popular belief, we were there the following year - I keep getting told we were refused at the gate - but we were in our new camp and nobody knew where it was. All they saw was we weren't on the hill, and they assumed the worst.) And I have to say it was a total blessing in every way. Our camp is incredible, and we are almost totally secluded - exactly how we like it. I can't imagine living up on the hill as it is now. Way too many people. Our new camp allows us the freedom to be ourselves that a hillfull of people would not. It really helped us band together as a tribe and a family, and become more than we ever thought we could become.

      And we eat kittens. They're crunchy - like babies.
      • I know the "Vlad" story. I was there that year and witnessed part of it. Vlad may have a lot of friends and he certainly provides very well for a lot of Pennsic, but he was the one in the wrong that year. The Tuchux acted honorably, just not in a manner that was deemed acceptable by the people in charge of Pennsic. Being on the right side and being involved in a physical dispute (off of the list field) is not tolerated at Pennsic. Many of us choose not to mention the specifics of that situation because it just digs up some bad memories. Both involved parties now play well in the sandbox together and I suppose that is good. I am not a Tuchux, I only casually know some of the Tuchux and enjoy their company, but I must speak on their behalf when this subject is broached because the Tuchux were standing in the "right" in this issue, but the entire situation degraded into a few instances of physical, violent confrontations.
        I will always refer to the old Tuchux camp location as "Tuchux Hill" but I gotta say, their new camp is just "Way Cool".
        • Unsu...
          I heard almost all the rumors about the Tuchux, way back before I even joined the SCA. I tend to form my own opinions of people and don't listen to "rumors" or stories told about other people or groups. While I've never fought against any of the Tuchux, I have Marshaled several battles that they were involved in at Pennsic. All I have to say is that I found them to be a hell of alot more honorable then some of the SCA fighters that I've dealt with.

          • i like fighting them, the only bad thing is there tends to be a large number of them at the time.

            Few years ago in the woods battle after a hold to remove the dead i was the only person on the line for about 20 feet in either direction and across from me were about 8 tuchux. There was a glimmer of hope in my eye that faded quickly as all the spears drew towards the same target....

            but, it was fun.
        • Well, I suppose I'm going to play the devil's advocate, so to speak, and say things that may well be unpopular.

          Jeffrey: (clips from his post) because the Tuchux were standing in the "right" in this issue. Vlad ..... was the one in the wrong that year. Being on the right side. The Tuchux acted honorably

          Well, I don't necessarily agree

          1) Vlad says he didn't hit his (now ex) wife. I've heard claims that he pushed her down. (or that she tripped in the gravel and fell) You seem to be stating that you've heard that he hit her. (though I've never heard before that he was beating her, or ever that he had a weapon) This may well be a domestic incident, or it may just be an argument. In either case, only the people involved can confirm the truth, and it seems they may well disagree about what exactly occurred.

          2) One of the Tuchux approached to investigate or intervene. On this point I agree that he acted honorably, and was in the right. Offering aid to a lady, like offering to escort a lady, is a chivalrous thing to do. (though forcing aid, or an escort, upon a lady is not)

          3) At some point in the ensuing argument, Vlad was struck with a rattan weapon.

          4) Regardless of the SCAdian attitude that rattan isn't a real weapon, in the real world, in any court of law, it would be considered a form of club, making this an assault with a deadly weapon. (note also that striking an unarmed opponent is not the same as an equally armed one)

          You may argue the merits of assaulting an unarmed man with a deadly weapon over a possible domestic dispute, but without evidence of domestic foul play, any assertions of honorability are based on hearsay. In any case, the escalation of the incident with a deadly weapon may have been an expedient answer, but it was arguably not the most honorable, or legal path, nor would I argue that it was right.

          With hindsight, it is easy to criticize a snap decision made by a single Tuchux as being flawed, and I'm willing to admit that I too have made rapid decisions that later were clearly not the wisest. My only point is that to praise a flawed outcome, or to take sides based on hearsay, is to miss the underlying reality.

          Disclaimer: I camped with Vlad for one year, though I didn't really get to know anyone well. I don't know anyone there by name now.
          Disclaimer: Having been related to a Tuchux, I've had a few conversations about them, all positive. I don't know anyone there by name now.
          Disclaimer: I contacted Jeffrey off list, and his reply was softer. Excepting this post, I consider his to be among the most reasoned and intellectual of posts in general. If I did not feel that his posts were respected, I would not have bothered to reply
          • I'm really very sorry that this was ever brought up and I'm even sorrier that I responded to it. This happened a long time ago and it is an ugly chapter in Pennsic history. Clearly there are people that see this situation differently from different vantage points. I think that the important thing to remember is that we've gotten past it and Pennsic continues to be a very special place and time for all of us. There are people that I may have a grievance with (not related to this situation) and I'm perfectly capable of enjoying my time at Pennsic and at least acting in a cordial manner to them.
            There are obviously still some very hard feelings laying under the surface from this` episode of Pennsic about ten years ago and it is best to let it lay.
            I don't have an axe to grind here. I know people from both sides of the issue and have no ill feelings towards either. I mentioned what I witnessed and heard as an objective viewer, and I've come to realize that there are still a lot of deep hurt feelings on this and I am sorry that I ever mentioned it. I won't ever again.
            • Beyond the egging, I don't actually have any deep feelings about the entire thing either way. I do, however, have deep feelings about the definitions of honorable, and in the right and other such concepts. Beyond wanting to see that part clarified, I would never have bothered to respond.

              Personally, I enjoy my time around most anyone at Pennsic, though I prefer the company of the more humble among us. (there are a few people I've met that sound like the seagulls from Finding Nemo only they keep repeating "me" instead of "mine") I prefer my Pennsic to be a drama free zone.
              • I don't care how anyone sees it. The bottom line is this: We got a great camp. Vlad got divorced. Case closed.
                • sorry i brought it up.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    No need to be sorry. Everyone stated their point in a civil manner. No name calling, no "I'll see you on the field punk," no harm done.

                    I think It's good to flesh out a few details now and then as sort of a historical perspective for people who are new to Pennsic, helping them to understand. As long as it's a civil and well rounded explanation. Especially if it has a nice conclusion, like the points Wildcat made...
    • The year of the circling clouds I remember well.I had some of the dogs and wenches gather up all the little ones(as we had a predetermined area to vacate to should a touch down occur).. and I fired up the grill.Hot food in your belly seems to warm the spirit no matter what the weather and eating took the kids minda s off the storm.It also gave me a good reason(the cooking)to have an excuse to be outside montoring the storm.
      • I was safely at home in my waterbed, in my air conditioned bedroom, petting my dog, wondering how badly my tent was collapsed, and thinking how bad it had to suck for everyone out there.
        • I think this is the best place to post this -

          I want to extend a thank you to the dog who lent my husband and I his lighter late in the last week of war. Our van was broken down and we had to test a part by melting wax onto it - and we had candles but no lighter. We were right across from Tuchux camp, stranded among the trailers and he was most kind. It told us what we needed to know and we were able to determine what needed to be done and get on with enjoying our War instead of worrying about the van.

          I don't know the man's name, but thank you.
  • Widcat,
    I'm STILL trying, after all this time, to figure out HOW to REGARD a Tuchux? LOL! This thread title seems so silly to me and I've never met any of you!
    • "Court of Regard" ... In forest law. A tribunal held every third year, for the lawing or expeditation of dogs, to prevent them from chasing deer. (Blacks Law Dictionary)
      Wildcat, I like to chase deer!
  • Made it up to Tuchux camp three times this year with Nissan and Aleric and I finally got to meet the illusive wildcat...

    Every time I left I couldn't walk a straight line... Darn Tuchux... ;-)

    I always enjoy the hospitality of Kobar and Animal's yurts ... thanks guys... and that tike bar with Jacuzzi rocked as well. What a set up.

    • my first Pennsic,XXXIV, i fought beside the Tuchux along with Lochleven Army, with my Pink shield blazoned with a daisy. i'm staring at this guy that looks like Skeletor, and i hear, "nice shield." not sarcastically at all, mind you. i have the utmost respect for the Tuchux fighters- somebody (higher in the chain of command than i) points them, says, "kill that" and they run into a horrid mess, and they get to kill. A lot. THAT'S FUN!!!! i must also give my regards to the um, wenches. there are always a few, even in the woods battles, who volunteer to waterbear. this is excellent!
      after discovering i was camping in "Old Tuchux Hill" i had to find out what the hell a Tuchuck was... and found it to be quite negative. this did not jive with what i had seen when i fought beside them. most of this you have quite explained with this post, and i do thank you for it. i do have one lingering contradiction for you- do women belong on the battlefield? if- IF a Tuchuck woman wanted to fight, would she be allowed to? (barbarian chicks would be hella sexy, after all.) there are very ugly rumors of tuchux being extra vicious to women fighters, but this could be easily discounted by tuchuck-imitation armor/weaponry. it simply is not in line with what i saw on the battlefield. Please, some input to dispell this nastiness.
      • We have had Female fighters in the past and we have several that arch on the battlefield presently.As far as hitting a female fighter harder then another that only applies to our own.We know if they can take a shot from us we don't need to worry about them on the field.
        As far as hitting a SCA femlae harder then a male just doesn't wash.The way I see it a female sca fighter is used to shots getting pulled on them from their own fighters,where as if you run up against one of us and your in armor your not male or female just dead.Hope this helps you.
      • "i must also give my regards to the um, wenches. there are always a few, even in the woods battles, who volunteer to waterbear. this is excellent!..."

        We know. But thank you.

        We've even gotten some recognition from the sca for this:
        • Unsu...
          I went into Tuchux camp this year. My friend is the new guy, Mongrel/kiltman.

          I must admit you're a lot more laid back and open bunch then some of the stuff-shirted laurels in the SCA. And I really like being able to out and out hit people I'm mad at.
          • I enjoyed Mongrels' visits to camp,I hadn't had to box since my youth in golden gloves.
            • My stay in the camp was awesome, best ass-kicking I ever got, but the walk back was pure hell. I've never been hit so hard with a polearm than when I fought Oak not to mention the shots to my bare skull because my helmet flew off. No question when it come to who are the most badass fighters.

              • So you're the guy Oak punched in the face. That was a great fight.

                Yeah, Hill life was fun back in the day. Then one year a bunch of people who weren't us moved up with us, and it was never the same. And while I spent my first 12 Wars on the Hill, you couldn't pay me to camp there nowadays - too many poeple that aren't us. I think I'll stick to the Valley. I love it up there.
          • They were lulling you into a false sense of confidence. You are lucky to have made your way out of that camp in one piece and not severely maimed or worse. Most of the rest of us have learned to be wary of the Tuchux camp because they are very aloof and secluded and their culture and practices are not for the squeamish. Count your blessings that you are with us and can still sanely type your words on the computer. There are others that have lived through their experience on Tuchux Hill #2 and the mere mention of Tuchux causes them to shake and sob uncontrollably. They drink human blood and roast their enemies and trespassers on a spit over an open fire and I have even heard that the remains of Jimmy Hoffa can be found in Tuchux camp. Stay away.
            How's that?........... can I get my family back now? ;-)

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